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Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
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Greekemmy Offline
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Post: #1
Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
In this thread I will copy and paste my blog posts about wikileaks-forum.com to provide an opportunity to the community to make comments and ask questions.

I joined the wikileaks-forum on the 8th of March 2011 and I was a member till 31.10.2011 when I became a local mod with a different nick: Green, for the Greek Board of the forum and helped in various ways to moderate i.e. deal with spam and post interesting articles, assisting members with queries, and whatever was required.

I left that forum on the 22-08-2012 after I was left in no doubt that the owner had turned anti WL/JA. I put both accounts into the deletion queue in end of Aug beginning of Sep, which were deleted after some days.

The following posts throw some light into the way it was run but also how it has developed since.

These posts remain a personal account based on what I know and the observations I make. My knowledge might be incomplete. If others have further details to share, please do. :-)
12-09-2013 07:30 AM
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Greekemmy Offline
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RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
The case of Al Manar Revisited – May 2012 at the wikileaks-forum

Posted on December 1, 2013 by greekemmy

http://greekemmy.com/2013/12/01/the-case...aks-forum/

It sometimes happens that you feel a single virtual space is your home with no alternatives and the people who created it determine every aspect of social interaction within it via rules, rewards, and punishments. That is how I started feeling once I became a mod at the Official WikiLeaks Forum . There was never a more powerful motivator to conform to dictates when the owner of that space proclaimed to dedicate it in support of a bunch of persecuted heroes who are changing the world. People you admire and want to support. Acquiescence to its rules as defined by owner then became a daily test of your support to these heroes.

So, I go back to the self proclaimed “Official” wikileaks-forum.com at the end of April 2012. A volunteer translation project was at full swing and it filled my days with activity as a co-ordinator.

A new crisis shook the forum and threatened to once again implode it socially. “Not again!” I thought to myself as it engulfed me in a spiral of sadness, fear, empathy, frantic action to protect/save, abandonment, disillusionment, acceptance of failure and finally the realisation that I had slowly compromised my principals for the sake of keeping the peace and propping up a space and its owner who was once more destructive.

On the 25th of April 2012, an article that appeared in Al Manar on line Newspaper was posted on a Board called ‘The Poison Cabinet’. This Board had been created to host controversial articles that could then be debated. First Cabledrum posted it and it was gone, then Z (owner’s alias) posted it again and it disappeared once more.

At the time I used to go into the forum and tweet links from it whilst using the Forum’s twitter account. At this point, when I saw Z had re-posted the article (albeit from a different source), I tweeted it. Oh my goodness, all hell broke loose. We had a proper “Who did it” at the Facebook Forum Staff Room and I had to explain privately my actions. In a jabber conversation Mark wanted to know my connection to the Al Manar article. He explained that this article was putting the forum at risk, he had received legal advise, the paper was affiliated with Hezbollah, a designated terrorist organisation.

I said I had no connection. Whoever was posting links to Al Manar he was putting the forum and himself at risk, he said. Then he produced a forum link that led to the thread graveyard (where we used to put all undesirable posts like spam etc). It was one of my very own posts of the same article. I could not for the life of me remember that I had also posted this. Everything that I read about WL releases and news I used to put up at the forum, since we were not allowed to liaise freely with the members, posting articles was a safe way to pass the time whilst looking out for spam. Did I remember putting this article up? No, but there it was, in front of me. Suddenly, fear possessed me. This mysterious post of mine could be the end of me at the forum.

Paranoia took momentarily over, only a few weeks ago I had realised that certain permissions could allow an Admin access to members’ profile information including their password. Could someone else had used my account details to post this article and implicate me, compromising my position? But I could not accept this as fact and dismissed it, instead I took the blame entirely, feeling inadequate and ignorant. It would not be the first time, I was a complete novice in this world of wonder.

I asked to be taken out of this board that Mark had given me to moderate. But he re-assured me with the most generous words. Whilst the posting of this article had apparently become the reason for stripping Cabledrum of his mod status for endangering the forum, he was letting me go scorch free. I should not worry about a thing, all he wanted to know was if Cabledrum had asked me to tweet it. Of course he hadn’t. I was fully aware that any dealings I had with him had to be reported back to Mark, as he never liked him, so I kept him at arms length as a sign of loyalty to Mark and not to get myself into trouble. I had in the past ample example of how deep Mark’s animosity went towards Cabledrum and the prejudice he had created against him held strong with many mods, who felt protective. From that moment I retreated entirely from the conversation over Cabledrum and reduced my communications with him, feeling that to do otherwise was pushing my luck. Then I received this in my forum inbox on the 9th of May:

Dear WLF team,

As you probably know, my moderator permissions got revoked and the “cabledrum” board was taken offline without prior notice. Why?

On April 25, I posted a highly controversial article from the Lebanese media organization Al-Manar, regarding the Nasrallah interview on “World Tomorrow”. Al-Manar, which is affiliated with Hezbollah, is banned in several countries, including Germany (where WLF is operating from) and the US (where WLF server is hosted). I’ve also posted an opposing article from Jerusalem Post.

As a result, I have been accused for posting illegal content “in spite of Z’s warnings about it’s anti-constitutional character”. I’m accused to have “grossly violated” the board rules and to have endangered both WLF and Z this way.

But: This posting was made with Z’s approval. I informed him in advance and asked for his permission to post this article. We’ve discussed the posting details for over an hour, particularly the legislative situation (which wasn’t mentioned by Z but by me). Finally, Z explicitly permitted me to post the Al-Manar article.

Shortly after it was posted, I asked Z again, if the posting is ok this way. He told me that he worries about it and wants to discuss the issue with the other admins. During this chat, the posting was removed by C. On this point, I’ve stated again that I accept this decision.

Over the next three days, we dicussed the legal situation and possible alternatives. Finally, on April 28, Z posted a copy of the Al-Manar article from another website on his own and without my knowledge. This posting was removed 3 hours later.

Assuming that I did post that article “in spite of Z’s warnings” (which in fact isn’t the case): Why did Z post a copy of it afterwards?

In response to this issue, the “cabledrum” board was taken offline. This board contains a number of valuable postings, all mentioned by WikiLeaks on FB/Twitter, and got more than 10,000 page views. There was never any problem with this board. Even if any of the above accusations against me were true (which isn’t the case): Would it justify this degree of censorship? Even the postings of banned users remain online.

I am punished for something I haven’t done. And even if I had done it (which isn’t the case) it would not justify the sentence.

Since I have been accused and sentenced without any opportunity to defend myself, this internal PM should be an acceptable remedy and should not be understood as offensive intervention.

I still try to hope on some strange misunderstanding.

Cabledrummer

The above message was accompanied by long quotes in German & English from Cabledrum’s communication with Mark that proved without doubt how truthful Cabledrum was in his assertions above. Mark had given the green light for the posting of this article.

Despite my upset feelings and empathy for his predicament, I stayed silent and did not reply to him, offering no support or help. I knew I had no influence what so ever and there was no one else to turn to. I had no trouble with any other admin did neither did I have a close relationship of trust with any of them, the only one I spent a little time talking to was Ariana and I knew by then that she was Mark’s closest associate (couldn’t get any closer than that). My only reaction I shared with the mod which I spent most of the time with after Mark, her reply gave no encouragement:

You have just been sent a personal message by isis on The Official WikiLeaks Forum.

The message they sent you was:

Quote from: Green on Today at 05:46:50 PM

:’(

4 every decision there are reasons… and i wasn’t there to value.
i trust and respect the decisions of the forum.
eventual discussions to clear the “why”, concern the involved ppl ONLY and it’s not an issue of “accusing” or being wrong or right.
hope things can improove only, and we can cohoperate To Support Wikileaks that is what we are all here for.

The Official WikiLeaks Forum forum@wikileaks-forum.com via soul.websitewelcome.com - 09/05/2012

Cabledrum continued reaching out, and I continued staying silent, it was now all decided by ‘the admins’ i.e. Mark.
You have just been sent a personal message by suspect on The Official WikiLeaks Forum. 10/05/2012
This is Cabledrummer. I have to write from another account since the cabledrum account got banned from sending messages, in response to my attempt to contradict.

Quote from WLF Mission Statement:Quote from: Z on May 24, 2011, 11:08:07 AM

The forum stands for the values Wikileaks has defended since its creation, such as freedom of speech and information.
[..]
We encourage constructive dialogues.

Unfortunately, WikiLeaks Forum fails to comply with its own standards. Decision-making lacks any transparency, dialogue is unwanted, criticism is forbidden, complaints are silenced. This is not what WikiLeaks stands for. And this is not the spirit of a free open community I’m dreaming of.

I strongly support the idea of WikiLeaks in the best possible way, I did before WLF and I will continue. Sadly, I’m prevented from sharing my work on WLF now and I’m not even allowed to ask for a reason.

At this point, I stop wasting my time with begging for fair treatment.

Cabledrummer

Eventually, Mark said he not only banned Cabledrum but also in anger he had accidentally deleted all of Cabledrum’s posts! I was astonished. In our telephone conversations his rage was evidently all consuming. I felt both fearful of him and what he might further do but I also felt pity, an immense sense of pity that he was once again failing in his role, at least in my eyes, and this saddened me. I was still convinced at this stage that he was the number one WL supporter. I tried hard to find excuses for him but they would not stand up to my own scrutiny.

His rage was unending and it started engulfing everyone remotely involved. He admitted it was his error to delete the posts. He could not accept the consequences of his actions, deeming himself blameless, could not see the damage and hurt he was inflicting on Cabledrum and others including the credibility of the forum as a platform. He felt insecure, wanted all other platforms’ boards off the forum. At this point he pressed my panic button. Although the forum had nothing to do with WL work, or its actual people as far as my experience told me (despite Mark’s claims) as long as it had the word ‘Official’ in its title any of Mark’s actions could be viewed by the community as somehow implicating WL. If Mark got rid of all the platforms, what message was he passing to the community? This anger was so dangerous.

Blessed be the peacemaker …Not!

And his actions had consequences. The deletion of over 400 posts did not go unnoticed and Cabledrum was not ‘going quietly into the night’. Other voices within the community started asking questions. Mark asked at the FB Staff Group Page for a spokesperson to step in and defuse the tension. I kept quiet, knowing what will follow…and it did. There was a drawback with having telephone contact with Mark, whatever my feelings were when I picked up the phone, I found myself agreeing to help in the end.

I wrote posts under his direction sealing him off the conflict zone, and tried to offer advise whilst deflecting tension. It was very difficult position to be in because Mark wanted this to work only as far as not experiencing the consequences of his actions. I reached out to WLPress who had complained about the deletions, and since Mark could not even allow direct talks with Cabledrum I agreed terms with them for the restitution of the posts. It was easy for me to find agreement as all parties were willing and able to find solutions. But what I committed myself to do on the part of the forum I failed in carrying out. Mark would not co-operate in facilitating the automatic loading of the posts. Despite the fact that Cabledrum offered to recover the deleted posts at the cabledrum board from his backup system Mark refused this. I started doing it manually but after the first couple of dozen ones were done, I stumbled on a technical issue. Cabledrum’s posts had html coded format beyond what my automatic html to bb converter could handle. My requests for help were answered by Mark with annoyance at the amount of time I was spending on this. No one else could help. I soon realised that the agreement would not be kept on the part of the forum.

Furthermore, I discovered the real reason of his rage which explained why he had reacted so violently and unfairly towards Cabledrum over the posting of the Al Manar article but so mildly towards me. He said that he had asked Cabledrum’s help with Ariana’s translating site (it was actually owned by him at the time, I later found out). Cabledrum had indeed delivered programming work to Ariana but she was furious. She had called Mark in anger fearing she would have to pay Cabledrum money that she did not have. As Mark kept going on about financials that hardly made sense, in the end of this conversation I understood entirely that this anger that made him attack Cabledrum over the Al Manar article had absolutely nothing to do with ‘endangering the forum’. It was an emotional reaction, prompted by Ariana’s feelings. I was once again speechless. The entire crisis was over a personal matter. It was the second time I was confronted with the same loop: Mark’s relationship with his friend, their financial interests culminating into translation activities on and off the forum.

Very quickly it became evident that he did not care to have the posts restituted, repeating again and again his feelings that he is being attacked, with no concern for the feelings of others and I started suspecting that he or his friend may have deleted the posts on purpose and not accidentally. I felt increasingly uncomfortable. I saw that all my efforts produced nothing other protecting Mark from the consequences of his actions. I also saw that he had manufactured a believable lie to achieve his objective.

But I accepted my failure to bring about an honourable settlement and made myself busy with the volunteer translation project. I kept Cabledrum blocked on all fronts fearing any communication with him would go back to Mark as it often did. At the back of my mind I started thinking that although it felt almost impossible to disassociate myself from what had become my first and only virtual home, I should plan an alternative future for my WL support outside the forum. I had heard and experienced before that he was very successful in stamping over his authority at the forum, persuading others to act on his behalf, encouraging discord by spreading negative information about others.In the end his every victory in securing his authority over others by hurting them meant that dozens of WL supporters left the forum in bitterness or disgust, often unable to find another way of supporting on line.

With the benefit of hindsight

In less than three months from the events I describe above, Mark abandoned any pretence of real support for WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. Aug/Sep 2012, confused but determined I left. He retained the forum and blog support-julian-assange.com and used them in a sustained campaign of open misinformation, smear and blind criticism towards WL/JA. I have described all this in detail at this blog in other posts. 99% of forum posts are copy and paste submitted articles about WL releases. In between these there are opinion posts exclusively debated among the admins/mods always critical and undermining of WikiLeaks and Julian Assange. Other remarkable facts have become known about the forum. Mark tried to sell it three times, Twitter followers appeared out of nowhere, possibly bought, Facebook Likes also appear to have been bought.

With the benefit of hindsight I would suggest that the Al Manar case is indicative of what happened at the forum. It was created to bring people together but it was emptied from real support by the manufacture of believable lies, hurting members who then left or were banned. When it was emptied internally from real support for the organisation and people who it was supposed to support, then it was turned into a vehicle of hurting the community outside the forum that supports WikiLeaks, at the same time as smearing the people directly doing WikiLeaks work.

There is now more than ever the need to understand as far as we can that private ownership of WikiLeaks named expression platforms can be easily manipulated by owners for their own purposes.

Resources for the The case of Al Manar Revisited can be found here: http://wp.me/p2MRYW-lg http://greekemmy.com/2013/12/01/resource...revisited/
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2013 07:39 AM by Greekemmy.)
12-09-2013 07:35 AM
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Greekemmy Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
At the www. wikileaks-forum .com May 2012 – The case of ‘Al Manar’

Posted on November 29, 2013 by greekemmy

http://greekemmy.com/2013/11/29/the-case...ed-part-a/

Here I republish Cabledrum’s account of the facts relating to his banning from ‘The Official WikiLeaks Forum’ in May 2012 and the deletion of his posts. I will be soon giving a personal account of what I know regarding these events.

I have included in brackets a web page (a post by Green) that I have archived for good order’s sake. Green was my forum mod nick. In the Page that have archived my Mod nick name is captioned as ‘Guest’ this is because I deleted this account in Aug/Sep 2012. At the time that I wrote this post I was a mod with co-ordinator role for the Forum’s Volunteer Translation Project and I had been given the ‘title’ Language Co-ordinator.

Verbatim From Cabledrum’s WebPage: https://www.cabledrum.net/wlf.html

Update [May 18, 2012]: On May 17, I published the following correspondence via Twitterand Facebook after having waited one week in vain for an answer. In response to this publication, WikiLeaks Forum now has banned me from accessing the forum and blockedme on Twitter. This is the only “answer” I got up to now.

Update 2 [May 19, 2012]: WikiLeaks Forum now has deleted all content ever posted by me even outside the “cabledrum” board, including WikiLeaks press releases, Cablegate listings, cable analysis etc., a total of more than 300 postings with over 40,000 page views.

Update 3 [May 21, 2012]: WikiLeaks Forum has posted a statement, (http://archive.is/Zjfhi) claiming that all my postings would have “accidently been deleted” and could not been recovered automatically. In response I offered to recover the cabledrum board posts from my backup.

Update 4 [May 24, 2012]: WikiLeaks Forum has refused my offer to recover the cabledrum board posts from my backup and blocked my IP address from reading Forum posts.

Subject: The Al-Manar case
From: cabledrum
To: isis, C, qubit, Z, sawz, Green, ariana
Date: May 09, 2012, 06:31:30 PM

Dear WLF team,

As you probably know, my moderator permissions got revoked and the
"cabledrum" board was taken offline without prior notice. Why?

On April 25, I posted a highly controversial article from the Lebanese
media organization Al-Manar, regarding the Nasrallah interview on "World
Tomorrow". Al-Manar, which is affiliated with Hezbollah, is banned in
several countries, including Germany (where WLF is operating from) and
the US (where WLF server is hosted). I've also posted an opposing
article from Jerusalem Post.

As a result, I have been accused for posting illegal content "in spite
of Z's warnings about it's anti-constitutional character". I'm accused
to have "grossly violated" the board rules and to have endangered both
WLF and Z this way.

But: This posting was made with Z's approval. I informed him in advance
and asked for his permission to post this article. We've discussed the
posting details for over an hour, particularly the legislative situation
(which wasn't mentioned by Z but by me). Finally, Z explicitly permitted
me to post the Al-Manar article.

Shortly after it was posted, I asked Z again, if the posting is ok this
way. He told me that he worries about it and wants to discuss the issue
with the other admins. During this chat, the posting was removed by C.
On this point, I've stated again that I accept this decision.

Over the next three days, we dicussed the legal situation and possible
alternatives. Finally, on April 28, Z posted a copy of the Al-Manar
article from another website on his own and without my knowledge. This
posting was removed 3 hours later.

Assuming that I did post that article "in spite of Z's warnings" (which
in fact isn't the case): Why did Z post a copy of it afterwards?

In response to this issue, the "cabledrum" board was taken offline. This
board contains a number of valuable postings, all mentioned by WikiLeaks
on FB/Twitter, and got more than 10,000 page views. There was never any
problem with this board. Even if any of the above accusations against me
were true (which isn't the case): Would it justify this degree of
censorship? Even the postings of banned users remain online.

I am punished for something I haven't done. And even if I had done it
(which isn't the case) it would not justify the sentence.

Since I have been accused and sentenced without any opportunity to
defend myself, this internal PM should be an acceptable remedy and
should not be understood as offensive intervention.

I still try to hope on some strange misunderstanding.

Cabledrummer
Subject: Re: The Al-Manar case
From: Z
To: isis, C, qubit, cabledrum, sawz, Green, ariana
Date: May 09, 2012, 06:45:30 PM

the cabledrum board will remain closed.

greetz

Z
Subject: Re: The Al-Manar case
From: suspect
To: isis, C, qubit, Z, cabledrum, sawz, Green, ariana
Date: May 10, 2012, 05:09:04 PM

This is Cabledrummer. I have to write from another account since the
cabledrum account got banned from sending messages, in response to my
attempt to contradict.

Quote from WLF Mission Statement:
Quote from: Z on May 24, 2011, 12:08:07 PM

The forum stands for the values Wikileaks has defended since its
creation, such as freedom of speech and information.
[..]
We encourage constructive dialogues.

Unfortunately, WikiLeaks Forum fails to comply with its own standards.
Decision-making lacks any transparency, dialogue is unwanted, criticism
is forbidden, complaints are silenced. This is not what WikiLeaks stands
for. And this is not the spirit of a free open community I'm dreaming of.

I strongly support the idea of WikiLeaks in the best possible way, I did
before WLF and I will continue. Sadly, I'm prevented from sharing my work
on WLF now and I'm not even allowed to ask for a reason.

At this point, I stop wasting my time with begging for fair treatment.

Cabledrummer
Subject: You have received a warning
From: The Official WikiLeaks Forum
To: cabledrum
Date: May 10, 2012, 05:37:41 PM

cabledrum,

You have received a warning for inappropriate activity. Please cease
these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take
further action.

Regards,
The The Official WikiLeaks Forum Team.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2013 07:41 AM by Greekemmy.)
12-09-2013 07:40 AM
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darkhorse Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
Emmy, just briefly - thanks for posting the above.

People need to know exactly how dishonest the owner of Wikileaks Forum really is.

I was shocked by the fact that Cabledrummer was banned for posting 'unconstitutional' material. Exactly whose constitution is WikiLeaks Forum serving? I'm starting to wonder if he's being paid by the US Government, particularly given the level of venom displayed and the amount of energy spent in expanding his Assange-hating empire of one.

I've posted the video of Julian Assange's interview with Nasrallah on this forum, on the basis that, regardless of anyone's opinion of him or Hezbollah, he's an important world figure. Also, it's a bloody interesting interview. (Personally, I'd like to see Assange present a lot more such interviews as the tone and content and choice of participant are excellent).

Clearly Wikileaks Forum does not serve the cause of transparency, does not believe that 'information wants to be free' and serves only a personal political and emotional agenda. Oh and of course, certainly doesn't support Wikileaks in any way, shape or form.

Thanks again for posting.
12-09-2013 02:13 PM
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Greekemmy Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
Wikileaks-forum.com for Sale by owner

Posted on October 24, 2013 by greekemmy

http://greekemmy.com/2013/10/24/wikileak...-by-owner/

What is the value of a WikiLeaks forum, to its members, to its mods, to the community it was supposed to support and what is its value to the owner. Can a monetary value be put on a dream? The final chapter in Mark’s hypocrisy:


[Image: wlf_for_sale.png]

So much for the ‘ideals of WikiLeaks’ he still pretends to uphold. What ideals? He has put the forum for sale to the highest bidder. It seems the WikiLeaks brand gives this asset high google rankings and steady flow traffic. No wonder WikiLeaks has called this website a fraud on the public.

What is there for sale?

A Website: http://www.wikileaks-forum.com, a blog http://www.support-julian-assange.com, a Twitter account, a Facebook page, all in a package. Hosted in Virtual Private Network paid by the Community it says on the advert (the Donation button).

So let’s not hear again the wikileaks-forum.com owner talk about the WikiLeaks ideals please, it seems he is interested in an entirely different matter here.

Original URL: https://forums.digitalpoint.com/threads/2546152/
Archived URL: http://archive.is/rgn5s
12-11-2013 01:46 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
What do the three Wikileaks-forum.com Sales adverts reveal
Posted on October 29, 2013 by greekemmy
This is a second post focusing on the commercial aspect of wikileaks-forum.com. The first you can find here: http://wp.me/p2MRYW-j4

Searching in the website https://forums-digitalpoint.com for more clues as to the commercial objectives of the owner of the wikileaks-forum.com I have stumbled onto a total of three advertisements for the Sale of the forum, References 1-3 below. The table I made based on the information on the adverts clearly indicates that Mark kept putting the forum up for sale since September 2011, testing the water for responses and offers, probably exploring to monetize its value. That is to say he was dipping his toe in the market to see what the market wants and how much it was prepared to pay. As time went by, his offer was enhanced through higher number of posts, a blog, Facebook, Twitter supporter pages/accounts and VPN hosting to obtain,it seems, a better monetary value.

Summary of the three advertisements

[Image: screen-shot-2013-12-10-at-14-49-31.png?w=412]

At the same time as these adverts were going up on the web, he was considering other offers of Finance including WikiLeaks financing the site [4], or raising money to cover the high VPN charges (estimate $129/month) through direct donations from membership [5].

Selling Advertising space at the forum through Footer links

But these were not the only options for consideration open to Mark. On the same day as he asks assistance in determining why wikileaks-forum.com with established PR6, shows no Google ranking at all in SSL[6], he advertises Selling 2-3 Advertising Footer Links to finance the site [7].

This is an example of a Footer Advertising link at the Forum back in May 2013 [8]:

Footer Link May 2013

[Image: footer-link-may-2013.png?w=260]

if you pressed on the link ‘Techical Advisor’ it would take you to http://www.sawz.com/ a link submission website. Sawz was the name of a Forum Admin throughout the time that I was a moderator (31st Oct 2011 – 22nd Aug 2012). Mark had explained that since he was helpful to him he put his link there. He said he was not earning anything from that Footer Link. I also recall a second Footer link there at the time when I was a mod linked to ‘a throat, ear and nose specialist Consultant’, again Mark had plausibly explained that his presence there was due to the fact that he had built this doctor’s website, so this doctor was helping him cover some of the hosting costs.

At the time of writing, no footer advertising links appear at the Index page of the wikileaks-forum.com.

The Many Questions that must be asked

So the questions we have to ask are: why was Mark running the forum if he no longer had the time to do so as mentioned in the advertisements? Why did he advertise as early as September 2011 to sell it? Why he never told any of the mods/admins at the time of his attempts to sell but he was keeping it a secret? Why was it so important for a political discussion forum to have a PR6 Google ranking, why was finance an issue when there were early offers from WikiLeaks to cover the costs as long as the forum was hosted with a safe hoster away from the US?

What is the value of a WikiLeaks Forum (endorsed or not)

But would Mark make a fortune commercially by selling the forum? I am not acquainted with the commercial value of a forum. Some advertising revenue could be made in general by forums/blogs that openly solicit advertising. But, I would say that as a commercial venture I can’t see it turning someone a millionaire overnight. Still, the advertisements are clear proof he was looking for money in the open market as if it was a commercial venture. If someone can provide some insight, it would be very much welcome.

Also, the ‘For sale’ advertisements could act as a negotiating tactic with whoever he was talking to, in relation to the future of the forum. He could just want to recover what he spent. It could also be an exit strategy for Mark. He may no longer wished to have, openly, the responsibility for the role that the forum would play as the anti-WikiLeaks, anti-Julian Assange ‘Supporters’ Forum. A team of disaffected ‘Insiders’.

In fact, I would say that the real value of a WikiLeaks related forum would not be monetary. Whether endorsed or not it could only be of real value either to members of the WikiLeaks Supporters Community (as a supportive site) or to those who wish to undermine it by using it as a tool to misdirect, spread misinformation, create uncertainty and doubt, do harm to the cause.

What do the Sale Advertisements tell us

One thing is for sure. The three Advertisements offering the Forum for Sale are telling of Mark’s perception of the website as something that has a monetary value for him, an asset to be owned, to be sold, to be milked using the WikiLeaks brand. As he used to say to me ‘Google likes “WikiLeaks”‘.

Such approach comes into direct conflict with the picture of the idealist WikiLeaks supporter, flying the banners high and rallying the troops for this worthy cause, that he trumpeted to the world for so long, as “the owner of the WikiLeaks-Forum.com, the owner of support-julian-assange.com”. This was the picture that he presented to the world, unchallenged, for the entire 18 months I was a forum member. He dropped the mask for me in August 2012 and I left. Since then he presents himself as the disaffected WikiLeaks supporter. With this new evidence we can learn that his intentions were not sincere already from September 2011.

Our learning continues…

Resources:

[1] First Sales Advert posted 7th of September 2011 http://archive.is/OZrM9

[2] Second Sales Advert posted 14th Nov 2011 http://HpQ62

[3] Third Sales Advert posted 26th August 2012 http://archive.is/E155v

[4] Conversation with Mark 29th of December 2011 about Forum Hosting costs http://wp.me/p2MRYW-gv

[5] Conversation with Mark Fundraising for wikileaks-forum.com for VPN costs 20th September 2011 http://wp.me/p2MRYW-js

[6] Page Rank and SSL Enquiry posted 15th December 2011 http://archive.is/Q3Hq9

[7] Selling 2 to 3 Footer Links on well known PR6 Forum with 11,000indexed Pages http://archive.is/vFCn9

[8] Example of Footer Advertising Link at the WikiLeaks Discussion Forum May 2013 http://archive.is/bOyh3
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2013 02:01 AM by Greekemmy.)
12-11-2013 01:55 AM
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Greekemmy Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
(12-09-2013 02:13 PM)darkhorse Wrote:  Clearly Wikileaks Forum does not serve the cause of transparency, does not believe that 'information wants to be free' and serves only a personal political and emotional agenda. Oh and of course, certainly doesn't support Wikileaks in any way, shape or form.

I would certainly agree.
12-11-2013 02:06 AM
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Greekemmy Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
Is Wikileaks-forum.com website owner and admins Faking Facebook ‘Likes’ ?

http://greekemmy.com/2013/10/22/is-wikil...ook-likes/

Posted on October 22, 2013 by greekemmy

On the 7th of October 2013 a forum thread was posted at the wikileaks-forum.com website which you will find archived at the end of the post. It refers to a letter that had been e-mailed to Forum members (which content you will find here: http://wlcentral.org/node/2900 ) warning that this forum cannot be trusted as ‘The forum site owner lost the trust of WikiLeaks as he pursues his own agenda.’

The Forum Post was shared around in various Inauthentic WikiLeaks Facebook pages controlled by Mark and ‘staff’.

In the Inauthentic FoWL page, see here http://archive.is/6DSOC the post link had a heading ’Open Apology from FoWl Facebook Group to WikiLeaks Forum Members’ followed by a ‘letter’ claiming a group of rogue FoWL members had e-mailed to forum members the warning letter mentioned above. The Inauthentic FoWL Facebook Page then apologised to forum members.

[Image: screen-shot-2013-10-20-at-22-08-33.png]


FoWL

https://www.facebook.com/WikiLeaks.FoWl archive.is/GBdGu
FB ID 363067913731557

The post received 309 likes which is a remarkable number considering that the total likes for the page is 2,986

One has to wonder how such high number of Likes have been so quickly accumulated on this particular post.

If one examines the postings on the page the last 6 months the maximum a post was liked was 21 times with most posts receiving from 1-10 likes.

The forum twitter account tweeted the link to this Facebook Post and the WikiLeaks Twitter Account responded

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks
@wikileaks_forum This letter and facebook group are fabrications. The group is controlled by ‘Mark’ and has nothing to do with FoWL.

The same forum thread promising more information was shared again on October 19th in another inauthentic Facebook Page here:

[Image: screen-shot-2013-10-20-at-22-48-42.png]


wikileaks-forum.com

https://www.facebook.com/wikileaksforum/...9027343376

http://archive.is/c0dFs FB ID 100989556660994

This time the FB post was ‘Liked’ 153 times. This is again surprising. Despite the fact that the page has 33,971 Likes, most posted links normally receive less than 10 likes.

During the same time I kept reading in Twitter that Facebook Pages can buy Likes to prop up a message or a brand and give it commercial significance or public opinion gravitas. The inconsistencies described above prompted me to investigate further the possibility that Mark and Forum admins managing the pages are buying post ‘Likes’.

I analysed all 153 likes for this post and I found that :

151 Facebook Accounts Names were from the Indian Subcontinent, only 2 were not.

103 Facebook Accounts that had ‘Liked’ the post did not actually list the Wikileaks-forum page or any WikiLeaks related pages in their “Likes” List, which was publicly visible and accessible.

44 Facebook Accounts that had ‘Liked’ the post did not have a publicly visible’Likes’ List.

Only 6 Facebook Accounts included WikiLeaks related Pages in the ‘Likes’ List.

The post was shared only twice.

In Conclusion:

The Facebook Post ‘Likes’ are fake.

So are Mark and his helpers who control Fake WikiLeaks named Facebook pages, post a ‘Letter of Apology’ by a Fake FoWL group linking to a forum post and then they pump up its importance with Fake likes? What a fraud!

One has to ask Why?

What is the motivation for all this ?

References for wikileaks-forum post pages 1-4 as it appeared on the 20th of October 2013:

http://archive.is/vVIsL , http://archive.is/CCToU , http://archive.is/M3vvQ , http://archive.is/cn6QQ

Further reference:

Indian ‘click farms’ generate Facebook likes for cash
12-12-2013 10:15 PM
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Greekemmy Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
The wikileaks-forum.com owner and admins bullying includes using UK police

http://greekemmy.com/2013/10/18/the-wiki...uk-police/

Posted on October 18, 2013 by greekemmy

In the many question MArk s formed in my head about my time at the website wikileaks-forum.com, surely the roundest and boldest extends to the relationship and co-operation between Mark (at the time aged 50) and Siggi (at the time aged 19). I mention their ages because it was an indication that their relationship was unequal from the start.

The latter was not someone I was acquainted with at the forum or outside. By the time I became a mod (31.10.2011) Siggi had already left. But, Mark kept saying things about him.

Is Mark lying about Siggi?

The first thing he told me in Autumn 2011 was that they set up the forum together. He also said the same thing about the shop. He said that Siggi had taken money from the shop’s account but WL refused to prosecute for financial embezzlement despite Mark’s encouragement to do so. He had repeatedly challenge them ‘why don’t you prosecute him?” He also said that despite his young age WL had given him a lot of responsibility at the forum. Under WL instruction Siggy had deleted an entire forum Board, the UFO/Paranoid rants board (for which he had a soft spot). He could never forgive Siggi and WL for censoring the UFO/Paranoid posts.

Sometime later he told me that WL had finally prosecuted Siggi for financial embezzlement. I could not help but detect a certain satisfaction on his part and he, in time, proceeded to re-instate a UFO/Paranoid Board. Considering what he was saying to me, I concluded that he could not have thought very highly of the young man. One minute he was presenting him to me as the WL forum representative. Mark’s dealings with him gave the forum legitimacy, next thing he was not very respectful towards him. In particular he said Siggy had a hacking career in his country, Iceland, bringing forward a few examples that I thought at the time he had better kept to himself. It was a betrayal to Siggi to be sharing such secrets with someone he knew for only about 5 minutes. I have no idea whether any of Mark’s claims about Siggi were true. But I was left with the impression that there was a lot of tug of war between them.

Is Mark lying about supporting WikiLeaks?

I left the forum (Aug/Sep 2012) and in Nov 2012 I came across an interview by Siggi as part of a BBC Radio programme were he mentioned his forum name of Q. I nearly fell off my chair, what was he doing giving interviews? By that time the forum had already comfortably established and documented their enstragement from WikiLeaks/Julian Assange that had started in Summer 2012. Every anti-WikiLeaks platform had been invited on board, the Objectiviser, Wikiwatcher, several PGPBoard staff, DDB’s OpenLeaks. The Admins in-between the hundreds of articles about WikiLeaks that they harvested from google and submitted to the forum, they also posted threads, questioning and criticising every single WL/JA action, without exception. The only thing they loved was the ‘idea of WikiLeaks’ without WikiLeaks, presenting more and more themselves as the disillusioned supporters forever the ‘victims of attacks by WL cultists’ all fictional, abusing people in twitter, if one as much as expressed an opinion different to them. One could easily see that the forum, now empty of any real support for WikiLeaks had been truly turned into a vehicle of hypocrisy. If they changed the name to wikiwatcher, they would be more truthful.

What was the balance of power between Mark & Siggy at the Forum?

Then in January 2013 a forum post was put up mentioning Siggi as a proof of WL’s involvement at the forum. Then on July 2013 a more extended version of the same post appeared again at the forum. During the Summer Siggi came out in the press with a series of articles about his role within WL and his role in co-operating with the FBI and passing them information about WL. You can find a summary here: http://www.cabledrum.net/news/q.

With all the above in mind and the sudden publicity Siggi brought upon himself, on the 5th of July I found myself discussing Mark & Siggy’s relationship with a couple of other people, sharing opinions. Finally I tweeted:

Mark & Siggi…who schooled/fooled who we may find out when the financial embezzlement case is concluded :-)

Of course this alluded to the fact that a) there was an unequal relationship between them. One person, a mature man with three grown up children of his own, an internet media expert (SEO, article submission systems) a young person’s football coach and carer of disabled people. The other, a young man of 19 with lots of internet experience but hardly any life experience. In my communications with Mark he sometimes described Q as the one making the decisions (as WL representative) ie he was the boss (e.g. taking the UFO board down) but in other times he was described as simply someone not in control of himself or his life…hacking, thieving, in trouble with the law, and how on earth WL gave him such responsibility. So who called the shots, who was giving instructions, Mark or Siggy at the forum and in their relationship. Who fooled the other? Was it the young hacker taking the UFO board down? or had Mark fooled Siggy and kicked him out of the forum? From my own experience I would say that Mark remained in control. From my own experience I would say that sometimes people make dramatic decisions to escape such control.

I made a reference to the conclusion of the embezzlement case as a landmark when some of the details of their relationship might become public and therefore reveal its nature. I also half believed that Mark may become a witness in this case. In his narrative, he placed himself right in the middle of it as a reliable witness. He knew so much about it and told me he had set the shop together with Siggy and spoke with such confidence on the matter and had repeatedly challenged WL to prosecute according to his own assertions. But, none of it was known widely. I do not know if anything that I was told was true.

The First Lie and its dissemination

But my Tweet was seen by Mark and his team and with no time to lose at all the WLForum twitter account as well as all the known individual twitter accounts of the current admins at the forum (WLF staff they call themselves) were all claiming that I had falsely accused Mark of Financial Embezzlement. The tweets were flying around like poisoned bullets dripping with the manufactured lie.

My tweet contained no accusation against any person http://archive.is/a2ZMa.

On the 7th of July 2013 a lengthy post was placed by Z (Mark) in the forum http://archive.is/pXvE0 saying the same lie that I:

‘had publicly accused a Forum staff member of embezzlement, together with Sigudur Thordarsson’

It also included several other screenshots of tweets I made, misrepresenting them, giving them always a certain twist to serve their narrative. This post was ‘Announced’ to all members. This means that a copy was e-mailed to over 15,000 individual e-mail addresses & went directly into their inbox for them to read without having to view them on the wikileaks-forum.com website.

On the next day, the 8th of July 2013 a second post was again ‘announced’ by Z to all members: http://archive.is/7ijM3 stating amongst other:

‘On Monday 8th of July 2013, the accused staff member launched criminal proceedings against @greekemmy for defamation of character and slander with the London Metropolitan Police MPS Crime Recording and Investigation Bureau’

The 2nd post was also translated into german & posted on the German Language Board: http://archive.is/2wdBz

The two forum posts were also put in the support-julian-assange.com blog by Soul Assassin, the blog’s owner (Mark), deleted now but kept for posterity in paper copy and now photo:

[Image: photo-1.jpg]
[Image: photo.jpg]

If people might be wondering why these posts were deleted, may I suggest they look at the Author Soul Assassin, who also has a public Deviant Art Account archived here: http://archive.is/f2mbM

Soul Assassin was also Mark’s jabber identity that he used in all his communications with me, here is one:

Conversation with soul_assassin@jabber.ccc.de/17908408921334650121964456

(10:25:31 AM) soul_assassin@jabber.ccc.de: user; wikileaks_forum
PW: !!??dbiruesd90m!!??
(10:25:40 AM) Private conversation with soul_assassin@jabber.ccc.de/17908408921334650121964456 started.

These posts were also shared as links through all the inauthentic WikiLeaks related Facebook Pages that he controls with the assistance of the Forum’s Admin staff, reaching over 180,000 Facebook NewsFeeds and they were shared several times and promoted there. I will save the screenshots for an update to this post.

The second Lie

But defamation is not a a criminal offence in the UK and as such it is not a matter that will be investigated by the UK police. Criminal defamation has been abolished in the UK since 12 January 2010 http://www.contactlaw.co.uk/criminal-defamation.html Defamation is a Civil matter where an individual raises a private lawsuit directly with the courts, that is to say the police is not involved. http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ar...t-law.html

So what has Mark actually done? how can he claim that ‘Criminal Proceedings launched against @greekemmy for defamation of Character’ with the MET when defamation is not a criminal offence and it is not a matter for the police. He claims to have sought legal advise on the matter. Hasn’t his solicitor told him this?

Of course my own solicitor to whom I turned for independent and legal advise, having looked at this tweet and consulted the law suggested to me that it is neither defamatory nor a matter for the police. I also shown them Mark’s forum/ s-j-a posts, the forum’s tweets and all the Facebook posts in the WikiLeaks related pages he controls. I was advised that I may wish to take myself steps to protect my own reputation by raising a private lawsuit against him, or at least approach Twitter and Facebook with a complaint. I did neither at the time not wanting to spend my money and time in this manner. I had quietly rebuffed the claims he was making and left it to that. I turned down offers of help from true Twitter friends (to whom I am for ever grateful for the moral support <3). I did not want the forum to attract more attention at a time close to the Australian election when Mark could just harvest it to spread more anti-WL messages. I believe my approach was correct at the time but it also emboldened him and his team of admins resulting on more cyber bullying. (I have analysed an example in another post).

And here is a perfect example of how far Mark is prepared to go to manufacture and propagate a lie, making it a tool for intimidation, manipulation and bullying towards 1 single individual. He is even prepared to mock the law & waste police time. Let it be known that it is the same person who shaped my initial in jabber with heart emoticons. Oh he loved his staff so much when they slaved away submitting links to his SOE submission system…ie his forum and blog websites :-)

Whose next on the list ?
12-13-2013 06:42 PM
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tectrix Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Lessons about wikileaks-forum.com
Wow. That's nuts! I'd heard about all this stuff on Twitter but never really knew the full details. Thanks for this. I've unfollowed them on Twitter now anyway.
12-16-2013 07:16 AM
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